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	<title>Comments on: Christian Resources Together: Last Few Days for Awards Nominations</title>
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	<link>http://christianbookshopsblog.org.uk/2010/03/10/christian-resources-together-last-few-days-for-awards-nominations/</link>
	<description>An Independent Voice in the UK Christian Book Trade</description>
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		<title>By: Media Watcher</title>
		<link>http://christianbookshopsblog.org.uk/2010/03/10/christian-resources-together-last-few-days-for-awards-nominations/#comment-13045</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Media Watcher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Aug 2011 12:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianbookshopsblog.org.uk/?p=3217#comment-13045</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[News is STL have made Roger Compton (&#039;worth more than his weight in gold&#039; ~ Phil Groom) redundant. 
&#039;Trust Media&#039; (or STL as I will always call them!) have already airbrused him from the STL website. This is an incredibly poor decision (just as it was with STL&#039;s Jonathan Paulton) and one which it&#039;&#039;s hoped the Christian trade will vocalise on the STL blog and then vote with their feet as to where they place their orders from now on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>News is STL have made Roger Compton (&#8216;worth more than his weight in gold&#8217; ~ Phil Groom) redundant.<br />
&#8216;Trust Media&#8217; (or STL as I will always call them!) have already airbrused him from the STL website. This is an incredibly poor decision (just as it was with STL&#8217;s Jonathan Paulton) and one which it&#8221;s hoped the Christian trade will vocalise on the STL blog and then vote with their feet as to where they place their orders from now on.</p>
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		<title>By: John Duncan</title>
		<link>http://christianbookshopsblog.org.uk/2010/03/10/christian-resources-together-last-few-days-for-awards-nominations/#comment-5892</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Duncan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianbookshopsblog.org.uk/?p=3217#comment-5892</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In that case, how do you decide Publisher of the Year between say, Hodder, who outsource their distribution to Bookpoint, and IVP, who do their own? Should the distribution be a factor, and if so should Bookpoint&#039;s performance be taken into account? My understanding has always been that this award is given for the quality of the books, and does not relate to distribution.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In that case, how do you decide Publisher of the Year between say, Hodder, who outsource their distribution to Bookpoint, and IVP, who do their own? Should the distribution be a factor, and if so should Bookpoint&#8217;s performance be taken into account? My understanding has always been that this award is given for the quality of the books, and does not relate to distribution.</p>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://christianbookshopsblog.org.uk/2010/03/10/christian-resources-together-last-few-days-for-awards-nominations/#comment-5877</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Luke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 14:14:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianbookshopsblog.org.uk/?p=3217#comment-5877</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think that it is for that reason that a distinction SHOULDN&#039;T be made. If a company is self distributing (whether or not they act as distributors for other) like IVP or Norwich I don&#039;t see that you can be an excellent publisher if i can&#039;t get hold of your books (like kingsway right now for example) and similarly, you can have a very smart delivery business, but if i am never using you, because i get better terms elsewhere, it&#039;s all for naught. 

It&#039;s very easy to be a brilliant distributor on a small scale... the best i deal with would be local suppliers who self publish. I can call them at 4:30, and have it by the close of shop in many cases, but for me, it only works if the whole package is there. And for me, unfortunately, i can&#039;t really separate Norwich and their admittedly quite good distribution from their parent companies decidedly  average trade terms... after all, if all of us used them all of the time, would their distribution be as good?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that it is for that reason that a distinction SHOULDN&#8217;T be made. If a company is self distributing (whether or not they act as distributors for other) like IVP or Norwich I don&#8217;t see that you can be an excellent publisher if i can&#8217;t get hold of your books (like kingsway right now for example) and similarly, you can have a very smart delivery business, but if i am never using you, because i get better terms elsewhere, it&#8217;s all for naught. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s very easy to be a brilliant distributor on a small scale&#8230; the best i deal with would be local suppliers who self publish. I can call them at 4:30, and have it by the close of shop in many cases, but for me, it only works if the whole package is there. And for me, unfortunately, i can&#8217;t really separate Norwich and their admittedly quite good distribution from their parent companies decidedly  average trade terms&#8230; after all, if all of us used them all of the time, would their distribution be as good?</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Lacey</title>
		<link>http://christianbookshopsblog.org.uk/2010/03/10/christian-resources-together-last-few-days-for-awards-nominations/#comment-5867</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew Lacey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianbookshopsblog.org.uk/?p=3217#comment-5867</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While we are on the subject of &#039;extra awards&#039;, why stop at distributor/publisher etc? What about Sales Assistant of the year, or Volunteer of the Year? We all depend on these good folk to actually open the doors and somewhere (hopefully!) make some kind of contribution. 

My first nominee for this non-existent award would be dear Chrissie Gray, who has been a volunteer with us for some 25 years. And before you say &quot;So what? give her a gold watch &amp; get over it!&quot;, Chrissie started with us AFTER SHE RETIRED from teaching special needs children. So you can start doing the arithmetic..... And she can give a lot of younger ones (like me!) a good run for our money in the way she copes with technology and the changes of retail.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While we are on the subject of &#8216;extra awards&#8217;, why stop at distributor/publisher etc? What about Sales Assistant of the year, or Volunteer of the Year? We all depend on these good folk to actually open the doors and somewhere (hopefully!) make some kind of contribution. </p>
<p>My first nominee for this non-existent award would be dear Chrissie Gray, who has been a volunteer with us for some 25 years. And before you say &#8220;So what? give her a gold watch &amp; get over it!&#8221;, Chrissie started with us AFTER SHE RETIRED from teaching special needs children. So you can start doing the arithmetic&#8230;.. And she can give a lot of younger ones (like me!) a good run for our money in the way she copes with technology and the changes of retail.</p>
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		<title>By: Melanie C</title>
		<link>http://christianbookshopsblog.org.uk/2010/03/10/christian-resources-together-last-few-days-for-awards-nominations/#comment-5859</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Melanie C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 09:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianbookshopsblog.org.uk/?p=3217#comment-5859</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Erm Luke, 
Slight problems with the Distributor thing give what you say about Margins and Marston, because with NBM your margins are also set by the Publishers they distribute and not the distributor themselves. So there is a big difference between the individual publisher that sets the terms and arranges the promotions/consumer marketing for their books and the distributor that distributes the book for the publishers, even though that Distributor, as with NBM, may have set up arrangements with the individual publishers to share some cost burdens in terms of Rep forces etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erm Luke,<br />
Slight problems with the Distributor thing give what you say about Margins and Marston, because with NBM your margins are also set by the Publishers they distribute and not the distributor themselves. So there is a big difference between the individual publisher that sets the terms and arranges the promotions/consumer marketing for their books and the distributor that distributes the book for the publishers, even though that Distributor, as with NBM, may have set up arrangements with the individual publishers to share some cost burdens in terms of Rep forces etc.</p>
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		<title>By: John Duncan</title>
		<link>http://christianbookshopsblog.org.uk/2010/03/10/christian-resources-together-last-few-days-for-awards-nominations/#comment-5856</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Duncan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 08:29:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianbookshopsblog.org.uk/?p=3217#comment-5856</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think it is true, however, that a company can be a good publisher and a poor distributor, and that therefore from an award point of view the distinction needs to be made. There was a time a couple of years ago, for example, when IVP&#039;s distribution operation had got in a mess and they were up for publisher of the year. I can&#039;t remember whether they won it or not, but I would have had very mixed feelings if they had, because the award apppeared to cover the whole publisher/distributor spectrum. I think therefore there is a case for a separate award for quality distribution (which could, of course, include wholesalers).

I&#039;m glad to say IVP&#039;s distribution has improved beyond recognition since that time - now pretty much 100% reliable, in my experience.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is true, however, that a company can be a good publisher and a poor distributor, and that therefore from an award point of view the distinction needs to be made. There was a time a couple of years ago, for example, when IVP&#8217;s distribution operation had got in a mess and they were up for publisher of the year. I can&#8217;t remember whether they won it or not, but I would have had very mixed feelings if they had, because the award apppeared to cover the whole publisher/distributor spectrum. I think therefore there is a case for a separate award for quality distribution (which could, of course, include wholesalers).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad to say IVP&#8217;s distribution has improved beyond recognition since that time &#8211; now pretty much 100% reliable, in my experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://christianbookshopsblog.org.uk/2010/03/10/christian-resources-together-last-few-days-for-awards-nominations/#comment-5852</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Luke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 21:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianbookshopsblog.org.uk/?p=3217#comment-5852</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To be honest, to my mind, there isn&#039;t much difference, for me, between a &quot;distributor&quot; and a publisher.

Wholesalers (Like STL or Gardners) are another matter, and are worthy of a separate mention, but for me, you can&#039;t have a distributor without a publisher, and even those publishers who &quot;self distribute&quot; like (IVP, Kingsway, etc.) often tend to perform some form of distribution for someone else.

Now I realise companies like &quot;Marston&quot; don&#039;t really fit into either category, but to be fair, as great a job as Marston do, the terms you get are completely dependent upon the particular publisher, and not Marston. 

FedEX, Royal Mail, UPS etc, are also key parts of the supply chain, but to be fair, I don&#039;t think any of us are suggesting we create an award for them. 

So if we&#039;re talking about new or adjusted categories, I think, Distributors should continue to be lumped together with publishers, but i agree that there should be a new category for wholesalers. .

Not that it really matters anyway. Awards and recognition is nice, but it&#039;s not why any of us do this.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be honest, to my mind, there isn&#8217;t much difference, for me, between a &#8220;distributor&#8221; and a publisher.</p>
<p>Wholesalers (Like STL or Gardners) are another matter, and are worthy of a separate mention, but for me, you can&#8217;t have a distributor without a publisher, and even those publishers who &#8220;self distribute&#8221; like (IVP, Kingsway, etc.) often tend to perform some form of distribution for someone else.</p>
<p>Now I realise companies like &#8220;Marston&#8221; don&#8217;t really fit into either category, but to be fair, as great a job as Marston do, the terms you get are completely dependent upon the particular publisher, and not Marston. </p>
<p>FedEX, Royal Mail, UPS etc, are also key parts of the supply chain, but to be fair, I don&#8217;t think any of us are suggesting we create an award for them. </p>
<p>So if we&#8217;re talking about new or adjusted categories, I think, Distributors should continue to be lumped together with publishers, but i agree that there should be a new category for wholesalers. .</p>
<p>Not that it really matters anyway. Awards and recognition is nice, but it&#8217;s not why any of us do this.</p>
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		<title>By: Melanie C</title>
		<link>http://christianbookshopsblog.org.uk/2010/03/10/christian-resources-together-last-few-days-for-awards-nominations/#comment-5786</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Melanie C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 10:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianbookshopsblog.org.uk/?p=3217#comment-5786</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think more categories, or at least adding wholesaler/distributor of the year.

But then in that case my vote would probably be Gardners this year for being so pro-active when the ibs-stl issue was such an issue. 

If were looking for a more &#039;Christian&#039; one then Marston Christian Services score pretty high with me, though NBM would get an honorable mention for upping their game and dropping the carriage charge as you have said.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think more categories, or at least adding wholesaler/distributor of the year.</p>
<p>But then in that case my vote would probably be Gardners this year for being so pro-active when the ibs-stl issue was such an issue. </p>
<p>If were looking for a more &#8216;Christian&#8217; one then Marston Christian Services score pretty high with me, though NBM would get an honorable mention for upping their game and dropping the carriage charge as you have said.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Groom</title>
		<link>http://christianbookshopsblog.org.uk/2010/03/10/christian-resources-together-last-few-days-for-awards-nominations/#comment-5778</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Phil Groom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 02:06:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianbookshopsblog.org.uk/?p=3217#comment-5778</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As you say, Melanie, NBM are not a publisher — which is one of my reasons for nominating them: I think either more or broader categories for the awards are called for. Why do the CBC (or whatever we&#039;re calling them) Awards disregard such an important part of the supply chain?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As you say, Melanie, NBM are not a publisher — which is one of my reasons for nominating them: I think either more or broader categories for the awards are called for. Why do the CBC (or whatever we&#8217;re calling them) Awards disregard such an important part of the supply chain?</p>
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		<title>By: Melanie</title>
		<link>http://christianbookshopsblog.org.uk/2010/03/10/christian-resources-together-last-few-days-for-awards-nominations/#comment-5775</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Melanie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 15:40:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianbookshopsblog.org.uk/?p=3217#comment-5775</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lol - here come the might size 5&#039;s.

Ok I have to say my publisher of the year is O-Books who have offered to give the same terms to indie bookshops as they do to Amazon - so that&#039;s 50% across the board - that cannot fail but warrant them the best publisher badge to my way of thinking.
After that would, as Luke has said, have to be Lion Hudson and their Alliance Scheme, good margins and good promotions and SOR terms make this a winner all round.

After that any publisher that gives me 40% and more gets a more than honorable mention in my book.

Sorry but I can&#039;t support best publisher to any publisher these days that gives me 35% and below - so there goes SCM-Canterbury Phil (Norwich books isn&#039;t a publisher they are a distributor, but CHP and DLT would still get a look in from me!) and IVP, that&#039;s just a moderate publisher really on non promotional items.

(Now I appreciate some places get given differing terms from publishers due to a number of factors so I can only work on what they offer either as declared standard terms to trade or what they have offered to me, therefore others opinions may be different due to this - and I welcome them shouting out in support of their publishers therefore!)

Whats worse though is when some of those self same publishers that give such low margins are marketing directly to consumers with deals I pretty much can&#039;t match in some instances due to the 35% and below they offer to me (and yes publisher&#039;s you know exactly who you are). Then factor in the higher discounts they can give to internet suppliers, well then for me they are just poor publishers to my way of thinking in terms of trade/retailer support.

Please note and lets make clear this is not about calibre of books published etc - many of the &#039;poor publishers&#039; to my mind due to how they treat me in regards to trade do produce excellent material and top authors, but then so do O-Books and Lion Hudson etc who give me excellent terms, this is about how the publisher interacts at trade level.

The bar has been set guys - and in some instances by failing to give me good margins directly you end up hurting both yourself and me. 
I might as well go direct to bertrams or gardners for convenience and get the books at the same discount you give me directly, or even consider going direct to the new wholesalers known as Bookdepository and Amazon, by publishers choice their prices are wholesale/trade prices or lower because publishers agree to the discounts demanded thus you have to give them the higher margin to keep stocking your book because you think they sell it so much better.
Yet for a measly extra 5% minimum direct to me I would go direct to you and probably be inclined to buy more copies or widen the range and you would save what, at least 10% per book on terms, and even with administration costs factored in still come away with a saving of about 3.55% I estimate. 

Don&#039;t say it can&#039;t be done, O-books has done it, Lion Hudson have done it and a good number of other publishers do it too -lets at the least start the game with 40% if you want to be truly seen as a good publisher that supports the retailer.

Hmm perhaps something to think about a little more hey guys?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lol &#8211; here come the might size 5&#8242;s.</p>
<p>Ok I have to say my publisher of the year is O-Books who have offered to give the same terms to indie bookshops as they do to Amazon &#8211; so that&#8217;s 50% across the board &#8211; that cannot fail but warrant them the best publisher badge to my way of thinking.<br />
After that would, as Luke has said, have to be Lion Hudson and their Alliance Scheme, good margins and good promotions and SOR terms make this a winner all round.</p>
<p>After that any publisher that gives me 40% and more gets a more than honorable mention in my book.</p>
<p>Sorry but I can&#8217;t support best publisher to any publisher these days that gives me 35% and below &#8211; so there goes SCM-Canterbury Phil (Norwich books isn&#8217;t a publisher they are a distributor, but CHP and DLT would still get a look in from me!) and IVP, that&#8217;s just a moderate publisher really on non promotional items.</p>
<p>(Now I appreciate some places get given differing terms from publishers due to a number of factors so I can only work on what they offer either as declared standard terms to trade or what they have offered to me, therefore others opinions may be different due to this &#8211; and I welcome them shouting out in support of their publishers therefore!)</p>
<p>Whats worse though is when some of those self same publishers that give such low margins are marketing directly to consumers with deals I pretty much can&#8217;t match in some instances due to the 35% and below they offer to me (and yes publisher&#8217;s you know exactly who you are). Then factor in the higher discounts they can give to internet suppliers, well then for me they are just poor publishers to my way of thinking in terms of trade/retailer support.</p>
<p>Please note and lets make clear this is not about calibre of books published etc &#8211; many of the &#8216;poor publishers&#8217; to my mind due to how they treat me in regards to trade do produce excellent material and top authors, but then so do O-Books and Lion Hudson etc who give me excellent terms, this is about how the publisher interacts at trade level.</p>
<p>The bar has been set guys &#8211; and in some instances by failing to give me good margins directly you end up hurting both yourself and me.<br />
I might as well go direct to bertrams or gardners for convenience and get the books at the same discount you give me directly, or even consider going direct to the new wholesalers known as Bookdepository and Amazon, by publishers choice their prices are wholesale/trade prices or lower because publishers agree to the discounts demanded thus you have to give them the higher margin to keep stocking your book because you think they sell it so much better.<br />
Yet for a measly extra 5% minimum direct to me I would go direct to you and probably be inclined to buy more copies or widen the range and you would save what, at least 10% per book on terms, and even with administration costs factored in still come away with a saving of about 3.55% I estimate. </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t say it can&#8217;t be done, O-books has done it, Lion Hudson have done it and a good number of other publishers do it too -lets at the least start the game with 40% if you want to be truly seen as a good publisher that supports the retailer.</p>
<p>Hmm perhaps something to think about a little more hey guys?</p>
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