Thank you, Kingsway!

… and thank you, Luke, for spotting this within the last hour or so:


Anyone who has visited the will notice a small victory for us.

Gone are the “Our Price” “RRP” and “You Save” boxes on the pages of most products.

Gone are the bogus “Pre-Order” Discounts.

Replaced simply with a “Web Price” and, nothing else.

It has yet to filter down to Kingsway owned, but this is a serious step in the right direction.

I on the few items i have checked, the “Web Price” is the old “our price” so they are still undercutting their retail partners, but in a way that is neither illegal, nor lies to their own customers.

It is not entirely bannished, the search page still has some remnant of “RRP” and “You Save”, but I am willing to overlook this as a small oversight, or a “work in progress” glitch.

Indeed, on all the “Pre Order” titles that i looked at, there is no evidence of any exclusive saving to be had by placing the pre-order, no indication as to what the price will be once it is releases, and as i mentioned, with the offers they are making available to retail partners on “Pre-orders” we should be well on our way to achieving price-parity on pre-orders anyway.

Once again, thank you

And a follow-up comment from Andrew Lacey:

Well spotted- this must have been updated this morning after 10am or so……

This doesn’t happen overnight, so some serious thinking must have been going on somewhere behind the scenes- for some time. Might have been nice to note somewhere that this was underway- would have saved a few of us a lot of pondering & heartsearching?!

None the less welcome for all that.

I will not now, of course, be pursuing a formal complaint with the OFT 🙂

13 thoughts on “Thank you, Kingsway!

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  3. An update.

    Search now appears also to be fixed. is still untouched, however, i’m quite confident that they are getting to it.

    Well done guys, you’re clearly working hard to get this done. I know how difficult it is solving these sort of server-side things, no small task, but i commend you for doing it, it is the right thing to do.


  4. I’m with Luke and the others in saying thank you to Kingsway and John P for doing the right thing and bringing themselves into alignment with the rest of the trade and reflecting the truer way.
    Thank you for listening and acting.

  5. For future reference threat of legal action was not a factor in any changes we have made, we have been talking with various retailers for some time now, and through discussion we made a number of decisions that are outlined in a general letter to the trade which will be posted or emailed by monday.
    Some of you will understand because I have talked with you, why I was unwiling to discuss these and other issues on a blog, and whether you agree or not it was my opinion that talking was better than writing, especially as the latter generated such heat.
    There are lessons to be learned here, let’s all be big enough to learn them! Despite what some may think, we fully understand the difficulties high street retailers face, fixing the problems of today are one thing, finding solutions to the issues of tomorrow are another.

  6. Hi John,

    It’s great that you have been listening to the retailers and wait with anticipation for the letter coming out on Monday….

    Just wondering whether it will cover such things as why your stock control is not working, why deliveries are so slow and why it is taking up to 3 months to turn around the returns from the partnership scheme?

  7. .. but does this really address the problem that if a product is sold on kingswayshop from day 1 of its release at (say) 8.99, that the trade discount calculation should be applied to that 8.99, and not some (now hidden) mythical, higher “recommended price”, that is probably the price that will still appear on (say) STL’s trade list? Or alternatively, Kingsway should state that their trade discounts are effectively nearer to 10% than 33% ????

    • I guess that is the argument for a ‘net’ price rather than discount, so a supplier sell to everyone at the same net price and they can choose to set the retail price. If the supplier chooses to sell direct to the customer at a similar price to the net price, then that is their decision.

      Of course, that would mean the end of volume discounts etc.

    • We need to be careful of overcomplication. There is a limit to what can be sensibly applied and administered, and (as a retailer) the 50% pre-order discount mentioned in John’s letter seems to be a sensible way forward. At least it gives me as a retailer the choice to do something to compete. I realise it may be much more complicated for a specialist online retailer.

      John’s letter is to be welcomed, as it looks at many differing issues. I’m not quite sure why some channel might have been found to say ‘We are aware of the pricing issue, and are working to resolve- expect a fuller letter soon’. However, there are some very interesting ideas here- I look forward to seeing how these develop in practise.

      And, perhaps, how the Kingsway ‘web’ ideas interface with the thoughts presently coming from STL re ‘Crown Books Mark 2’ websites?!

  8. Andrew
    Agree with your comments. You may not have realised, but my last post was made before John’s letter to retailers arrived, so I was not aware of Kingsway’s plans at that time.
    Most of what John has said seems positive and sensible, I just hope Kingsway can deliver on the promises John has outlined.

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  10. I realise I have been a dissenting voice towards kingsway here in the past. I would just like to thank John and everyone at kingsway.

    I have been in discussion with John personally over the last few days, and, if anyone has problems with Kingsway, or any supplier really, I strongly encourage you to do so.

    The bulk of what I discussed is now common knowledge, the remainder, while i have agreed not to discuss in public forums like this one, i’m sure if you were to ask him he would tell you himself.

    I believe there is a benefit to blogs like this, but not at the expense of breaking off communication with people like John who can actually make a difference.

    I believe that a Blog can be a valuable tool, and vehicle for discussion, but perhaps should not be our sole vehicle for attack. I will be the first to admit that at times I used it to attack John and others, and while i stand by many of my comments, others, especially those which were character based, could not be more inaccurate, and i apologise for whole-heartedly. Rightly or wrongly, I think if i was in his position, i would have also withdrawn from the conversation which was taking place here.

    I know kingsway have been working very hard to solve a lot of the problems we have been experiencing, after all, a lot of the promises John has now made to us did not happen unilaterally or overnight.

    We can discuss the relative merits of the methods of releasing information, but the fact is, John Pac, and everyone at Kingsway have had the best interests of the industry at heart. We can debate whether they are how we would do it or not till we are blue in the face, and I still do not agree with everything they do, but by telling John himself, i believe i have done a lot more good than moaning about it here.

    While it would be unfair to Phil to say that his blog is “unhelpful” I do think that the picture, at times, that it paints of people like John Pac and Keith Danby are wildly different to the men i have come to know and respect.

    It would be unrealistic to say that a few emailed conversations make John and I best friends, but I can assure you of this, in spite of the picture that has been painted here and elsewhere, at times by myself, John is one of the finest, most candid and honest people i have had the pleasure of working with in this industry. His passion for the Christian retail industry, in all of it’s forms, including Bricks and Mortar stores, could not be more evident, and he is working so hard to address concerns personally, professionally and honestly.

    I am certain that he would hate that i mention this, as he does not do anything for his own glory, or for praise, but John answered the first email i sent directly to him, at 5 to midnight, well outside of office hours.

    While we will probably always disagree on a few things, I am certain that in the main, we have the same goals, the same passion and the same heart for making God’s word available.

    I have often extolled the Kingsway staff, like Oli Proctor and James Baterbee at the expense of people like John, so now, I would like to thank John for the way he has dealt with the situation, and with me personally.

    As I have said, We still do not entirely agree with the way he exited the conversation here, but I thank him for continuing the conversation in other forms, and making the changes necessary to see Christian Retail remain as viable as possible, for as long as possible.

    Thank you John, and Thank You Kingsway

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