News Roundup: 10 Years of The Good Bookstall | Bob Hartman Story in New World Record Storytelling Attempt | Facebook Update | Living Oasis Edinburgh Closing | and more…

UPDATE 7.45pm, 20/05/2011: Living Oasis Edinburgh to Cease Trading 4th June 2011

In an announcement posted on facebook this evening, Living Oasis Edinburgh have indicated that they will cease trading on 4th June 2011.

MY APOLOGIES for the lack of news postings here over the last few weeks: life, as they say. As always, however, there’s been plenty happening in the trade — and plenty more coming up — so I’m pleased to be able to present a mix of stories old, new and forthcoming. Don’t forget to give me a shout anytime you have news to share: here, on facebook or via twitter

In Brief…

The Christian Book Centre, Redruth,is seeking new owners as the current owners prepare for retirement. The shop won the CBC ‘Small Bookshop of the Year’ Award 2008.

The Good News Centre, Newent, which celebrated its 30th anniversary last year, has an attractive new website up and running, designed by Nigel Steele at Quoakle:

Macclesfield’s new Christian resource centre, The Hope Centre, is now open: congratulations to all involved.

Pilgrim’s Progress Bookshop, Hereford, are hosting a book signing with local author Donald Southey for his new novel I Messiah on Thursday 26th and Friday 27th May 2011, 12 noon – 1.30pm both days. Free tea and coffee will be served!

St Mark’s Press have moved their distribution back to Fairway Marketing from STL/Trust Media Distribution, with immediate effect.

St Paul’s Bookshops (Birmingham, Leeds, London and York) have entered the blogosphere: follow them at

STL UK are now trading under their new identity, Trust Media Distribution. Old email and website addresses will continue to work, but now’s the time to get up to speed if you haven’t already done so. On twitter @TrustMediaDist

Former Waterstone’s Boss Dominic Myers has woken up to reality at last and acknowledged the need for joined-up thinking in the book trade: “We’re all in this together,” he says. Welcome to Farewell from the world of independent bookselling, Dominic…

10 Years of  The Good Bookstall: Celebrations at CRE

MY PERSONAL THANKS AND CONGRATULATIONS to Mary Bartholomew and the rest of the team at The Good Bookstall for their generous hospitality at CRE last week: it was an honour and a privilege to be able to share in their 10th anniversary celebrations, as well as to meet so many other friends and colleagues from the trade during the course of the day.

Mary Bartholomew with the Good Bookstall's 10th Anniversary Cake

Mary Bartholomew with the Good Bookstall’s 10th Anniversary Cake

For a few more photos featuring some of the booksellers and publishers present see my CRE 2011 facebook photo album:

Facebook Photo Album: CRE 2011

Facebook Photo Album: CRE 2011

Bob Hartman Story in New World Record Storytelling Attempt

The Lion Storyteller Bedtime Book

The Lion Storyteller Bedtime Book

DO YOU ENJOY STORYTELLING? Then make your way to the Peace in the Park Festival at The Ponderosa in Sheffield on 4th June where Self Help Africa are planning to set a new world record for the most adults reading aloud to children at a single location. The chosen story, Tortoise Brings Food, is an African tale retold by Bob Hartman in the The Lion Storyteller Bedtime Book.

Bob says:

I’ve been telling stories professionally for over twenty years, and I am always amazed by the power of a story well told to capture and entertain and delight. Sharing stories with children is an opportunity to cement a relationship and shape a life. I’m so pleased to be involved in a project that encourages parents to read to their children, and at the same time, contributes to the needs of parents and children in Africa. Let’s break the record and make a change in the world!

Storytelling starts at 3pm, with Guinness World Records adjudicators present. More details and a pdf practice sheet of the story available from Lion Hudson: Lion Children’s Books in world record storytelling attempt!

Facebook Update (Updated 21/05/2011)

IT’S ALL HAPPENING on facebook with FM Ballymena and  Manna Christian Centre, Streatham, setting up new pages — don’t be shy now, click on through and hit those Like buttons: you know you want to … and you never know, they might even like your pages in return.

Meanwhile, if you happen to be up north or are passing through Edinburgh at lunchtime on 23rd May, St Andrew Press would love to see you at their General Assembly Event celebrating their new life as part of the Hymns Ancient & Modern family:

Saint Andrew Press, the publishing house of the Church of Scotland, will be holding a special General Assembly event to celebrate its new life working as a part of Hymns Ancient & Modern. Come along and enjoy lunch, hear about the many resources available, meet staff and friends of Saint Andrew Press and collect vouchers for limited numbers of free copies of Leith Fisher’s fantastic But I Say To You!

RSVP to Michael Addison: full details on the event page

Living Oasis Edinburgh Still Trading Closing Down (Updated 7.45pm, 20/05/2011)

Living Oasis Store Finder from CRE 2011

Living Oasis Store Finder CRE 2011

DESPITE AN APPARENT GOOF-UP by the company’s publicity department, which somehow omitted the Edinburgh branch from flyers (pictured) and School Catalogues given out to punters at CRE last week, I’m reliably informed that Living Oasis Edinburgh, the company’s sole-surviving store north of the border, is still in business.

UPDATE 7.45pm, 20/05/2011: In an announcement posted on facebook this evening, Living Oasis Edinburgh have indicated that they will cease trading on 4th June 2011.

Elsewhere, unfortunately, things are also looking less than hunky-dory with still no news of opening dates for the all-new bright-and-shiny Leeds and Liverpool stores. Independent sources indicate that a number of suppliers have learnt the hard way and, fingers burnt by non-payment of bills, have had to withdraw credit facilities, leaving staff in some shops struggling to meet customer requests: please continue to pray for everyone caught up in what seems to be a crippling downhill spiral.

To end on a more positive note, however, the company did manage to put on an impressive stand at CRE offering free coffee for anyone spending £5 or over: congratulations to all concerned.

New MD for Alban Books

WENDY RIMMINGTON, who was appointed as MD for Alban Books in November last year, has moved on, making way for new MD Jonny Gallant, formerly of Saint Andrew Press. Commenting on his appointment in a brief press release (pdf, 41kb), Jonny said:

Alban Books is a very exciting company, working with a terrific range of US publishers and I’m really looking forward to putting my sales and marketing background to use in facing the opportunities and challenges ahead.

I’ve invited Jonny to contribute a guest post to tell us more: watch this space…

Norwich Christian Resource Centre Enters Nominations for Telegraph Book Club Tour

CONGRATULATIONS to Norwich Christian Resource Centre, one of several Christian bookshops that have entered nominations for the Daily Telegraph/National Book Tokens Book Club Tour. In the section explaining why the shop should be chosen to host a Book Club Tour event, they say:

We hold book signings and author discussion evenings on a monthly basis usually complimented by a two course meal with wine/coffee in our 44 seater cafe.

The events are not always faith based and we have local historian and author Neil Storey talking about the history of Norwich in September.

Sadly we were just unable to attract PD James last Christmas as she felt she was now too old to travel. A monthly book club has met for the past 11 years reading authors as diverse as Delia Smith to Kate Atkinson. I would ideally like to attract Sally Vickers.

Other Christian bookshops nominated include:

Nominations are still open: head on over there today if you’d like to submit your own nomination

Wildcard: Sainsbury’s Wins Bookseller of the Year Award

LAST BUT NOT LEAST: Congratulations to Sainsbury’s on winning The Bookseller‘s “Martina Cole General or Chain Bookselling Company of the Year Award”:

Sainsbury’s was honoured with the Martina Cole General or Chain Bookselling Company of the Year Award after reinvigorating book zones, increasing book sales by more than 33% and attracting new book buyers to the market. One judge said: “We should celebrate the fact that they are embracing books and offering people an alternative place to buy—somewhere they can spend time browsing as well as buying.”

Full story: Quercus publisher of the year at The Bookseller Industry Awards

Whether or not Sainsbury’s genuinely qualifies as a bookseller is a hotly contested issue in the report’s comments section: well worth reading. From my point of view there’s a certain irony here: having moved to Sainsbury’s following LST’s redundancy proceedings last year, I now find myself working for the nation’s leading bookseller — and I haven’t had to restock a single book in my entire time there…

21 thoughts on “News Roundup: 10 Years of The Good Bookstall | Bob Hartman Story in New World Record Storytelling Attempt | Facebook Update | Living Oasis Edinburgh Closing | and more…

  1. I note that the Bookseller’s industry awards link states that “We should celebrate the fact that they (Sainsbury’s) are embracing books and offering people an alternative place to buy — somewhere they can spend time browsing as well as buying.”

    Personally, I can’t say I’ve ever been in a branch of Sainsbury’s where there was either any book I really wanted to buy, or anything I would regard as remotely resembling a browsing space. Perhaps someone else has had a different experience?

  2. The Goodbookstall team were very pleased you could join us last week, Phil, as our websites are complimentary in assisting the Christian reader. Congratulations again on your ten years and let’s hope we can both continue for many more years.

  3. Announcement on Facebook tonight that Living Oasis Edinburgh are closing on 4th June – desperately sad news. Thoughts and prayers for the staff.

    • Yes, have just seen it: forgive my bluntness, but WTF are Ray George and his gang playing at? They clearly had this in mind when they printed the flyers but what — couldn’t be bothered or didn’t have the decency to tell the staff until today?

      Seems to me that if Nationwide so-called “Christian” Trust is the face of “Christian Mission on the High Street” we’re surely better off without it.

      • WIth respect Phil… What do you actually want?
        When NCT did things behind closed doors… you blasted them… Now they do things properly with a timely, appropriate press release and they are similarly blasted. Whatever they do, seems to be a no-win situation. NCT have, at least recently, been very up front, if stores cannot become self-sufficient, they will close.
        Yes NCT have clearly known that Edinburgh was closing for a while now.
        However, all staff at all branches also know that if they can not get support for phase two, or at least manage to become self-sufficient in phase one, they cannot be subsidised indefinitely.
        NCT has been clear. Edinburgh is closing because their current shop is not big, or flexible enough to support (what they perceive to be) a sustainable business model, and is too expensive to continue with the current level of trade.
        They are not (necessarily) ending trading in Edinburgh forever, just in the current unit.
        I think it VERY unlikely that the staff didn’t know this was coming, or that this was the first time they were told about it. It was perhaps the first time they had a date and time for it, but they must have known it was coming.
        All shops were given, insofar as it was possible, a 12 month “lifeline” during which time they needed to become profitable, and where possible, find support and premises for a wider remit, which includes a coffee shop and childrens play area, or else, they would need to close.
        Do I like this business model? Not really, but it has hardly been a secret.
        Edinburgh, in it’s current form, has come to the end of it’s 12-months, and is not profitable, so staff will surely have known that this was coming.
        Unless you have information to suggest that staff are being told something wildly different and are being mislead, told that their future is secure when it is not, I think your speculation is perhaps not the most helpful.

        • Sorry, Luke, but this was NOT a timely press release: at CRE last week Living Oasis were distributing Store Finder flyers and School Catalogues (see my photo above) which omitted the Edinburgh store, and the staff at Edinburgh knew nothing about it!

          It’s as clear as the day is bright that the powers-that-be at NCT had already decided that Edinburgh was closing down but hadn’t notified the staff — the first they knew of it was via the flyers.

          But that’s typical of NCT communications: staff knew nothing about the Project Manager post advertised last year — they found out about it here; and I’ll lay good odds that same can be said of the Warehouse Supervisor’s post currently advertised in the Baptist Times (May 13, p.10) — this is where they’ll hear about it.

          Revisit Dianne Hellyer’s observations on the Bedford closure if you need a reminder.

          It’s like a re-run of the Brewers’ treatment of staff during the SPCK/SSG rundown, staff treated as nothing more than chattels to be disposed of when not needed.

          Edinburgh took a long while to sort out, to find premises that were supposedly suitable, and now they’ve been declared unsuitable. This wasn’t the old Wesley Owen premises: this was a new location taken on with the expanded vision in mind. Here’s a reminder of what it looked like just prior to opening: – look on and weep at what’s being lost and for the people whose lives are once again thrown into turmoil.

        • Phil.
          While I see where you are coming from, and certainly feel for the staff, I don’t think, in this case, your comments are justified.
          You need not point me to Dianne’s comments, I remember them well, and was in full agreement at the time. You will note my own comments just a few down from hers.
          However, much has changed since then. All staff in Living Oasis know that their continued employment is contingent on profitability and generating support. Perhaps that wasn’t clear at the beginning, but it certainly is now.
          This time, Living Oasis have been up front about the fact that not all stores will survive. They have been candid and up front about the reasons why the store was closed, and, need I remind you, the press release was posted on the Edinburgh facebook page first, that is where you link to, so the staff MUST have seen it before it was made common knowledge.
          You say it is clear that the powers that be had already decided that Edinburgh was closed by CRE last week, and perhaps you’re right, but equally, perhaps not. Perhaps they were still in discussion about the possibility of extending their current premises until moments before the press release was actually made. Perhaps they were on the verge of signing a lease for a new premises which fell through at the last moment.
          Equally, what evidence do you have that, even if it was a “done deal” at CRE, that the staff were not informed before that time?
          And correct me if I’m wrong, but my recollection of it is that the George Street property IS the same one as WO used to occupy.
          It is a large property, to be sure, large enough, one would hope, to accommodate a book shop and coffee shop, and I can certainly see why NCT would be hopeful of refitting it to suit. But, that I know of, this is the same property that WO occupied, they did not select it with “Phase Two” in mind, it is not an owned building, and if the landlord or city planners say no to your building plans, then the you haven’t got any other option but to find another property, or move out.
          As I say, If you have evidence to the contrary (ie, information which says that NCT told staff everything was fine when it was not, mislead staff or investors as to the longevity of the store, or broadcast one set of information publicly, while projecting another image privately, etc) then please share it, but it feels to me as though you are speculating at this point, which is unhelpful.
          I see a whole lot of “This is how they acted on occasion X”… “therefore they must have acted the same way on occasion Y”. It is rhetoric and conjecture.
          If NCT do not put out valid information, I agree, that is all we have to go on, but on this occasion, they have given us information. The NCT put out a press release with more than sufficient information, which details how they have acted and why, while you have presented NO solid information, beyond wild speculation, to the contrary.
          In the absence of sources which overtly back up your position, your speculation actually borders on libel, and is worrying to me.
          As you well know, I am not the biggest fan of the Nationwide Christian Trust, nor a huge believer in their Living Oasis business model, but unless you have information you are willing to share with us to back up your comments, I think it is pretty unfair, in this instance, to put words in the mouths of Living Oasis staff.
          I, personally, in this situation, while offering my sincerest condolences and heartfelt prayers to the staff who have been made once again redundant, commend NCT for the way they appear to have dealt with it.
          There is no good way to tell employees, and the public, that any business venture has not succeeded, people put a lot of hope, faith, effort and dreams into things like this, but in this case, on the evidence I have seen, and in the absence of any evidence to the contrary (bar your speculation) I think that the NCT appears to have learned from past mistakes and is doing a much better job this time around.

        • Luke, you are right and we should not really speculate without imput.

          Has anyone checked with anyone from Edinburgh shop to see if Phil is wrong and that they were fully aware before the flier at CRE?
          If anyone is reading this from Edinburgh or LO then I would really welcome a clarification on this so that unneccesary speculation and worry can be done with.

          My problem Luke with what you have said is solely because if they weren’t directly and openly told prior to that flier being released that they were being made redundant then in my book there is no justification for this and it does rate up there with Brewer type actions.
          Telling shops get business or go out of business is a very different principle than telling them they are in a redundancy consultation with less than 30 days until closure etc.
          I think most of us who have worked for chains have at some point been told turn the business around or face closure at a future point, but I’m pretty sure that if you then found your shop missing from the list of shops without directly being told a decision on your shop had been made and your job therefore was definitely gone you would be gutted and distraught to say the least – and almost certainly would not think that being given a blanket statement was at all the same thing as being given full consultation.

          I am hoping that you are right and want to believe and know that they were properly treated and given a full and comprehensive consultation prior to any leaflets with their details missing being given out a major national exhibition.

          Most of all I am praying for all of the staff effected by this action – those making the decisions and those effected by the decisions (and yes I’ve been one of each previously so truly know the real heartache and difficulties attached to both) and I truly pray for a trade that seems somehow to have lost it’s way, lost sight of the mission aspect, the need to treat each other with utmost repect and put the needs of others if not before ourselves then certainly as equal with ourselves. For a trade to act as a witness of how to do things better, to act with charity and compassion, to be just and upright, to be part of the community not just for the money that community can bring in to us but for the benefit of the community as a whole – even those we may never serve and that may only use us in a crisis, knowing that being there is as much a witness and purpose as anything and that growth and expansion plans sometimes are not what we need, but instead sometimes it is merely to stand still and break even, to maintain against the odds because that is the witness that may be needed at the time.

        • Melanie.
          I agree with what you are saying, and want to be clear that I do not necessarily DISagree with Phil, if he has sources which indicate that what he is saying is true. If the staff did find out through the CRE flyers, and were under the impression that their future was secure between those flyers going out and the announced closure, I back Phil’s anger 100%.
          However, Phil has yet to present any information to suggest that this was the case, and, as you say, no-one from the (soon to be former) Living Oasis Edinburgh store has come forward to back up his position, so I have to base my decision on the facts which are available, and, based on the available facts, I see no reason to condemn NCT over their handling of this yet, and CERTAINLY see no reason for comments like “WTF are Ray George and his gang playing at?”.
          Using words like “clearly” to begin a sentence of pure, 100% speculation (again, unless Phil has information he want’s to come forward with to back it up) is poor reporting, and, as I say, woefully close to being libellous.

          I was there at the end of IBS-STL/WORG and know first hand the disparity between Phil’s speculations (often reported in the same sentence as fact) and the truth of some things which were going on.
          I’m not saying NCT is in the right, or that the staff haven’t been grossly mistreated (they may have been) but I think speculation which flies in the face of published reports is VERY dangerous, in the absence of evidence to the contrary.
          I whole heartedly echo your comment ” if they weren’t directly and openly told prior to that flier being released that they were being made redundant then in my book there is no justification for this and it does rate up there with Brewer type actions.” However, since no-one has come forward and accused them of that, at this point, then we should not accuse them of doing so, off the bat.

          I also think that there is a BIG difference between being in a group, like (Pre IBS-STL) Wesley Owen or SPCK etc, and having a general sense of needing to increase sales to continue to survive, and the specific goals laid out before LO shops (Become self sufficient within 12 months and attempt to find support for a larger, more broad business plan, or close). As I say, I feel, from what I have read, that many staff were either unaware of this to begin with, or did not take it as seriously as it was intended, and the first wave of closures took some in the chain by surprise, however, after those first closures, I don’t see how anyone within the chain can be under any illusions about how serious this is. Edinburgh was unfortunately not profitable, and I imagine staff on the ground would have been aware that their current landlord was not willing to allow them to enact plans to extend into the coffee sector.
          So even if they did not know a date and time before the CRE leaflets went out, I find it hard to imagine that any of the staff did not expect the call at some point. If that was the case, then even finding out by a CRE leaflet (however unfortunate and non-ideal that may have been) is nothing like the Brewers actions, who, according to my understanding of the matter, out-right lied to people about their futures.

          One thing I know we all agree on, however, is our thoughts and prayers for the staff affected.
          No words any of us can say to one-another will make these things right, or easy. Fortunately, as Christians, it is often not the words we speak to each other which make a difference, but those spoken to God, who created everything, and has all the power to make this right, however he chooses to do so.
          When our words and actions fall short, we can rest in the knowledge and understanding that even through our hardest times, we are not alone. God is with us and if we trust in him, he will carry, care for and protect us, no matter what we go through.

        • Luke,

          Again on a number of things we agree – lol, we frequently do I think but we approach things from different angles often.

          To be fair, I’m not necessarily agreeing with how Phil phrased things and I don’t think he actually needs me to defend him or his record of reportage.

          However can I say one thing – sometimes people aren’t willing to be named or speak out ‘on the record’ for fear of reprisals or at a certain time – I am not saying that this is so in this case but I do know it has been the case previously and was very much so with regards to both WO & SSG/SPCK.

          In regards to the Brewers it can also be said they set out clear plans of what they expected shops to do and what the goal posts were and the future repercussions of failure, in that they were no different than any other chain I know of when in financial turmoil – they then sacked people by email with little further advance notice than that.
          Yet it was equally obvious to those shops in advance that targets/goals were not being achieved etc etc.

          Yes you were in at the end of WO and can comment on that from your experience, but i’ve got other friends that were in WO that have a radically different take to yourself, possibly more akin to Phil’s reportings.

          I don’t know but I think in all cases it’s likely a perception thing 😉

          The truth is that what matters most is that we remember that at the end of any decision made or closure undertaken we are dealing with real people, easily injured, fragile people and that for me is the important thing – that at the times of trouble, like these are, that we do the best we can to treat them with as much respect and consideration as possible.

          ‘When our words and actions fall short, we can rest in the knowledge and understanding that even through our hardest times, we are not alone. God is with us and if we trust in him, he will carry, care for and protect us, no matter what we go through.’

          One thing though, and I’m sure I’m reading you wrong on this one, but I think that we certainly should not excuse bad things by saying God is there and prayer heals all. Though this may be true we do not have the luxury of excusing our bad behaviour or actions by pointing to and relying on God’s grace to get us out of the trouble our actions first caused I think.

          Yes we are never alone, God is indeed always there. However sometimes, as the footprint poem points out, it feels much as if we are alone and God is far away in such times as job loss etc.

          So again to all involved in this sadness my heartfelt prayers and hope go out for new jobs, new insights and healing wherever it is needed.

  4. Philip Groom wash out your mouth with soap!!! That kind of language and on a christisn blog too! For Shame

    • Typical. Reminds me of this from Tony Campolo:

      First, while you were sleeping last night, 30,000 kids died of starvation or diseases related to malnutrition. Second, most of you don’t give a shit. What’s worse is that you’re more upset with the fact that I said shit than the fact that 30,000 kids died last night.

      What’s worse? That I said WTF? Or the way NCT are treating their staff, suppliers and other business partners?

      • Phil, to be fair I think your mum was being a bit tongue in cheek there 😉

        However on the treatment of staff and the death of children I think we are all in agreement.

        What matters is not what we say but what we do at the end of the day and the way in which we do it and it is important to do the right thing in the right way at the right time, and to care when these things aren’t being done and I see in you someone that cares deeply for those most effected by these things.

        I think you really do hurt alongside those suffering, and when we hurt sometimes it’s hard to reign in the exclamation of pain or phrase it in more elegant terms.

  5. Thank you for your update, Phil.
    I always look forward to your posts as I am very interested in seeing how christian retailers are endeavouring to keep Christ on the High Street.

    God Bless you, Carole

  6. Melanie: thank you.

    Anyone getting in a tiz over my outburst: maybe think of it as my “Cleansing of the Temple” moment — I suspect more than a few of J’s followers got a bit worried when he went off on one; and yes, I know I’m not J, nor even Tony Campolo, but I do think there’s too much of a tendency amongst Christians to play at all being sweetness and light when sometime a bit of anger is called for. Unfortunately I’m not in a position to go to NCT HQ with a whip and drive them all out, so I’ll let off a bit of steam here or over on my personal blog. Criticism is welcome, and I’ll tolerate some degree of posting under pseudonyms; but anyone who wants to engage in dialogue need to come out from behind their pseudonyms: in this instance that means you, “Phil Groom’s Mum”.

    OK, responding to Luke’s observations now.

    Luke, I appreciate your concern, and your comment

    I was there at the end of IBS-STL/WORG and know first hand the disparity between Phil’s speculations (often reported in the same sentence as fact) and the truth of some things which were going on

    notwithstanding, you should know me well enough by now to know that I don’t go in for unfounded speculation. In fact, I’d invite you to back that comment up with specifics, please: as I’ve said on numerous occasions, as and when I get things wrong, I’m always happy to put the record straight, but I don’t recall you raising any points during that debacle that required me to do so. You’ve asked me to substantiate: perhaps you’d like to do the same?

    And on that note, I stand corrected on the LO/WO Edinburgh premises: I was told that LO had been unable to secure the lease on the former WO premises, but after extensive searching they had eventually found suitable premises. It seems that I blinked and didn’t register that the address they ended up using was in fact the same one. My apologies for that.

    Now the facts about the current situation: on Thursday 12th May I visited the Living Oasis stand at CRE, where I picked up their Store Finder flyer and School Catalogue, with the Store Finder printed on the back cover. Only 11 stores were listed, Edinburgh being the one that had gone AWOL. I tweeted that out; that was picked up by a friend on facebook who raised a query with LO Edinburgh and another LO contact, both of whom responded with surprise and said it was business as usual in Edinburgh.

    Next, I posted the above, and, being charitably inclined, attributed the omission of Edinburgh to a goof-up in their publicity dept. The very same day, LO issue their press release.

    Read that timing as coincidence if you will Luke; feel free to regard the puzzled response from LO Edinburgh and t’other LO person as disingenuous. But please don’t be blind to the way NCT are treating their staff. It really is not a pretty picture, but right now, I’m out of time…

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